Rules/Ban Clarification

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by snc, Aug 8, 2018.

  1. snc
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    snc Well-Known Member Lifetime VIP

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    but fr can i have a reason of why i got banned snek, was it because i bhoped something i shouldnt have or was it the fact that it shouldve ben zoned off but wasnt or was there another reason because i dont want to be beaned again and i want to know exactly what i did rong and if its the reason im thinking there are many others whove done similar to what ive done on diff maps that need ban. just wondering. this is not a ban appeal i juat wanted to understand clearly as it just seems to me that u baned cuz u wer angery at the time when u couldve just zoned off like it shouldve ben and removed time.
     
  2. sneaK
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    sneaK Owner Owner Admin Ops Team Moderator

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    You know why that tiny little ledge wasn't triggered off, but I guess I'll have to put it into words - the 1 or 2 units that weren't covered by the trigger was because many people clear that ledge by a few measly units, which would reset them if the trigger was there. That's the purpose, which I'm convinced you know, as it's on a LOT of other maps, but you decided to abuse this one.

    [​IMG]

    I've added a reset zone, now anyone who cuts it incredibly close will probably get incorrectly reset, but if that's what I have to do to avoid this kind of fiasco in the future, so be it. It penalizes good players instead of someone who tries to exploit an obvious trigger.

    [​IMG]

    This isn't a popularity vote or up for debate. It was an obvious abuse of a trigger created for quality of surf.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2018
  3. snc
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    snc Well-Known Member Lifetime VIP

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    i put that vote up becuase i wasnt warned or told not to do it, i was just wondering what others think about not warning people when they do something wrong and just ban them (because in my eyes i didnt see anything rong with it since things like that have happened before with no implications, and if u did see something wrong with it you could just remove time and fix the problem area like u did, because if u dont fix it and just ban/remove times people will eventually do it again from not knowing it was not allowed)

    again i dont see why u removed the vote as i put this in General discussion and not in ban appeals as im not looking for a reversal like i said above, it just seems as ur taking this the rong way i just want the rules to be clarified further to know exactly what u can and cannot do, which would also help in future cases like this
     
  4. sneaK
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    sneaK Owner Owner Admin Ops Team Moderator

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    It's because you know exactly what should and shouldn't be abused, I shouldn't have to give you the heads up on every single little un-triggered 2 unit section on every map that you can't bhop. If theres anything that legitimately questionable you usually ask which I appreciate, but at the same time there's no way in hell you didn't know what this 2 unit untriggered section was for, and conveniently didn't ask if it was ok or not before abusing it.

    It gets to a point where this shit keeps happening over and over that I'm no longer just going to delete the time and move on, it's a massive waste of my time and I'm just going to issue bans without warning. There have been too many warnings, for everyone.
     
  5. snc
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    snc Well-Known Member Lifetime VIP

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    idk about you but he couldve easily put a 1 unit trigger on that section to casue the same affect ur talking about while also blocking the possibility for someone to do what i did and if they did happen to triggerhop it that would be a diff story because they actually did cheat the bonus. and you shouldnt ever have to give a heads up to not do something just fix the map to where u cant do it in the first place so we wont be in this situation again


    dam i didnt know you have to ask a staff member everytime u want to surf something i cant imagine all the questions flying at you when someone finds a shortcut (maybe u should put that you have to ask an admin if its ok to surf something or not in the rules)


    tbh this is a reason you should have staff that deals in things like this (a guy for zoning/adding maps, another for timer shit, another for discord/forum shit, and then u be overtop them all as u are the owner) but this is ur server but i dont think this is a smart move as i have never received a warning for this or as far as i can remember for anything prior, and there are many others who have never ben warned and might overlook the rules and get banned for something they didnt even know they did was wrong. (imo for things that u truly did not belive was "cheating" and ''just another sc'' and u go and make it not allowed u should at least tell the person/people that did that what they did was wrong and if anything else like this scenario arises in the future contact u about it if u missed it while looking thru the maps for possible cheats/sc that are not allowed, and then state that that was a warning and if u do something like that in the future that they would recieve a ban and so on) but thats just my opinion
     
  6. sneaK
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    sneaK Owner Owner Admin Ops Team Moderator

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    You can still perf a 1 unit trigger, and you can also get reset by a 1 unit trigger. I didn't make the map, but the logic is pretty sound. There are MANY maps that utilize triggers that are a few units short to allow very close cuts, this is not new to you.

    That's just ridiculous. There's a clear distinction between a shortcut, and (in this case) abusing a trigger.

    Gladly, I'd love to find someone who I can trust, who is willing to do any of the above. If you know of anyone please let me know! I'd absolutely love to delegate certain tasks so more can get done, but aside from a few small tasks that I've asked for help with, it appears that no one wants to fully step up and take some responsibility and contribute to the community in such a technical way. Is that my fault? Probably partially.

    This argument is just going in circles. I refuse to believe you legitimately think that was an acceptable 'skip' or 'shortcut'. You have gotten numerous exploited times removed similar to above (triggerhops, weird prop bhops, superboosts, etc) except I've never actually taken any action, now I'm starting to regret that. As I said before, there are also times where you try to avoid that sort of thing which I appreciate, but this was just blatantly stupid, and I'm not the only one who feels that way as we could tell. As I've said numerous times before, you've seen snipped triggers like this on dozens of other maps, know what they're for, and still decided to continue with this.

    I understand there is a disconnect with the infamous "intended route" debate, and that obviously needs to be clarified, and that will be within the coming week. As much as I like to keep the rules incredibly simple here, apparently that is not enough.
     
  7. snc
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    snc Well-Known Member Lifetime VIP

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    if u give it a 1 unit trigger then its obv u shouldnt be triggerhopping and thats a certain no no as uve previously stated but uve never said anything about this kinda situation, as triggerhopping and what i did are two completely different things as i just bhoped an untriggered spot in a map that happened to cut time


    /s btw



    i belive uve already said that ur not going to give anyone database access to do anything so yeah idk man gl with that

    most of the times if i do something im not sure of i do it to let u see urself via bot to determine wether its valid or not and i let u know but if its this much of a hassle to just delete a time then i wont go for sc's anymore. also "weird prop bhops"? ok ive got about 50+ people ready u can ban because i really belived this wasnt a problem

    all in all my main point which is why i put the vote up in the first place which was why treat me differently just for "knowing better" imo it should always be a warning, a ban, then increasing severity of bans but idk im not ownerman
     
  8. sneaK
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    sneaK Owner Owner Admin Ops Team Moderator

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    A 1 unit trigger is pretty much worthless, and as I pointed out before, could actually cause issues with such a tight angle on a map like this.

    Yeah, no one should need direct access to the live database, however there are multiple systems in place to give specific access to certain areas, however a proper web system with a login where a certain few could remove times, would be sick. That being said, I don't have the knowledge or expertise to create such a system.

    As I said before, have you not been warned in the past several times for stuff like this?

    Anyways, I will be clarifying rules a bit more in the very near future, but I was really hoping that this kind of thing would boil down to common sense. I'm sorry if you didn't think you've ever been warned for stuff like this in the past - I distinctly remember doing so, on more than one occasion. Looks like we'll need some better documenting to back that up for the future.

    Edit: Reports of superboosted/triggerhopped/exploited times can all be put here, where I usually keep up with them pretty well, unless removing the times would be only a small bandaid, and it can be exploited again. That's when I usually hold off and look for a 'bigger picture' solution before trying to temporarily remove a few times, which will only get abused again the next day. Unfortunately a lot of these times are just at fault of the engine - triggerhopping should never technically be possible, same with superboosting, but myself, and many other communities have yet to find a solution for this.

    I've removed your ban for the meantime since it's obviously my fault your previous warnings/time removals haven't been given any 'official' warning - this will also change in the near future to keep track of infractions. For now, your 24hr ban record will be proof of a 'warning'.
     

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