Lets have a discussion.

[spoon]

This may have actually been the smartest thing i've ever seen you say

I'm not retarded, I just like having fun

 

[Semper]

There's an obvious difference between someone using racial slurs in a conversational way and someone using racial slurs to harass a particular person. I am NOT okay with the latter.

During my tenure as admin, I have typically been able to very quickly tell the difference between the two. I personally have no issue with racial slurs being used in conversation, but I also think we need to maintain some sort of rule to not treat other players differently based on race, gender, religion, etc.

Extreme racism is another thing I believe should be kept off the servers. It helps nobody and has no place in normal conversation. The rules don't have to be black and white (no pun intended) because our admin team is smart and able to tell the difference between the different types of uses of racial slurs. For example we don't need a list of what is acceptable and what is not, it should be quite apparent when someone is using slurs or hate speech in a negative way that belittling players or harming the community.

Those are just my opinions on the subject, not sure if that made much sense, but it's how I feel.

First off, yes, there's definitely an obvious difference between using racial slurs in malicious versus non malicious ways. Indisputable. However I think that, even though the admin team is smart enough to identify different types of racial slur usage, and I don't doubt this (contrary to my unfounded opinions which I held in September-October), I think that the current rule system disallows for this admin-dependent judgment, and sets a limit which, I think Meowmeh's post clearly describes, is a hindrance. What should be of main concern is alienation and harassment.

 

[Meowmeh (Dallas)]

I'm not retarded, I just like having fun

glad you're havin a good time

 

[Josh csgoatse.com]

Yup.

 

[Cameron]

(Change of mind, Edited)

Personally I don't care for people using the N word at all. I feel as if people who have worked the word into their vocabulary shouldn't be punished just for saying it casually, as an admin and this should hopefully go for other admins. We should be able to tell the difference between someone using this word casually or harassment.

I change my mind on this subject, although I do still believe its gonna be hell on earth with trolling for a little while, this shouldn't be a ban worthy offense unless its clear trolling or harassment. People who have it within their vocabulary and don't mean any harm in saying it should not be punished.

 

[Semper]

Personally I don't care for people using the N word at all. I feel as if people who have worked the word into their vocabulary shouldn't be punished just for saying it casually, as an admin and this should hopefully go for other admins. We should be able to tell the difference between someone using this word casually or harassment.

BUT I don't think this rule should be changed. If this rule was adjusted so it would only count as racism if it was blatant harassment, and the N word ending with an A was allowed.... It'd be the fucking talk of the town, everyone would discuss it. My prediction is that it'd be a new class of troll on server, people just saying it over and over again and claiming its their vocab, or its just not harassment. Everyday I feel like you'd get on and just hear it non-stop from people who never said it before this rule update and obviously from kids trolling.

Discussing it with Hanzo and its thought that its too late for this rule to be changed anyway.. If it was, going along side my prediction it'd be like a week of hell, maybe more than that. Then it would probably cool down and be chill... so is that lets say, month at least or crazy toxicity worth it just for this 1 word to be passed?

So, I think it's important to foresee consequences if the rule is changed, however, I think your explanation is a bit extreme. First off, I don't think a change to this rule would just pertain to the use of 1 word, and even if it did, the implications of allowing it seem to me to be a lot less toxic then your prediction. A change to this rule would be, yes, partially to allow the n word ending with a, but also to nullify the phrase "baiting racism" and replace it with "instigating harassment." Now, as for my prediction of the consequences of a rule change, it seems to me that sneaK wouldn't have to change the wording much of the first rule. The current wording for rule 1 is: "Be considerate of everyone's experience. Do not verbally attack others, do not be racist, sexist, or say/do things that will cause others to have a bad experience on our servers. Friendly banter is normal, but being abusive is not tolerated." It seems to me that the changes asked for in this rule aren't in its explanation, but in the underlying subtext. If we left the wording to be mostly the same, and if we can accurately predict the influx of new players within the next month or so, and the usual amount of toxicity that occurs on the server on a day-by-day basis, then I don't think that a huge influx of toxicity would arise with them, and the current level of toxicity on the server would, I believe, stabilize and lessen. Sure, there would be the occasional toxic player (or players) who is just going to troll, but I don't think making the subtext of this rule less restrictive is going to create a whole new class of players who aim to ruin everybody's experience. If so, they should be dealt with accordingly as always. If the theoretical rule change does change things for the worst, then we can always go back to the way things were (which would be a poor decision in my opinion), but honestly I don't believe that this is the case. I think being more relaxed will promote a more relaxed atmosphere, and, say the rule change does happen, I think that if the admins say "you can say the n word but no hard r" to a player who isn't clear about the rule isn't going to have a drastic consequence. I think the player will typically react calmly or maybe even say "wow, on other servers I can't even say it with an a. This is chill" or something along those lines.

 

[Semper]

I should also add that I've never witnessed a rule change that's asked for in this post on any other CS:GO server. I believe that even temporarily changing a rule would be a valuable experiment to see what happens would rules become more lax, because all we can do is speculate here. I believe that our hypotheses should be held under scrutiny and be tested so that we can learn more about how CS:GO players behave. I think it would be a valuable test in itself, so that we can reword or reinforce certain aspects of rules, or make them more relaxed because it showed to have a positive effect.

 

[Fayse]

Where to begin on this. In my mind, I don't really think racial slurs belong on the server, and I can tell a CLEAR difference when someone is using one in their regular speech (I live in LA, I hear/use it all the time come on) or when someone's trying to be offensive and hateful. I don't have ANY problem with people using them if it's just their regular speech. I have told people not to, because of the server rules, so half of the time I play devil's advocate just to enforce what the rules tell me to enforce. There are also a lot of times where I let it slide, because it's extremely obvious that the person doesn't even realize that they're using a racial slur in their speech. In those cases, I'll usually let them know what they said and ask them to try to not use it on the server.

I am for allowing some leeway with this rule. If someone comes in screaming about their distaste of black people, it's obvious that no rule changes were going to stop them from doing so. Of course, with the new rule outlines in place (if they get changed, that's up to big daddy sneaK) we'd have to see where the line is drawn for what people can say. I think the hard R should still be kept off the server, but allow some other words.

I also agree with Semper on this one, we can do a kind of test period to see how the community reacts. This will also mean that Admin's and other regulars of the server will have to adjust how they react to the way people behave.

tl;dr
Going full Slender is bad
saying nigga every now and then in conversation is ok

 

[s p o o k y]

First off, yes, there's definitely an obvious difference between using racial slurs in malicious versus non malicious ways. Indisputable. However I think that, even though the admin team is smart enough to identify different types of racial slur usage, and I don't doubt this (contrary to my unfounded opinions which I held in September-October), I think that the current rule system disallows for this admin-dependent judgment, and sets a limit which, I think Meowmeh's post clearly describes, is a hindrance. What should be of main concern is alienation and harassment.

I see what you mean here, and I definitely agree.

I was just tossing in that I believe we as a community need to keep some sort of rule or check in place so that hate speech is not allowed should the rules be altered as a result of this discussion.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[Semper]

I see what you mean here, and I definitely agree.

I was just tossing in that I believe we as a community need to keep some sort of rule or check in place so that hate speech is not allowed should the rules be altered as a result of this discussion.

Hope that makes sense.

Of course, I fully agree.